July 28, 2007

Comments for Jul 29-Aug 4 '07

This post is for general Operation YouTube Smackdown comments, questions, or suggestions. Please be civil, and try to make any criticisms the constructive kind. Spam, abuse, and other pointless posts will be deleted at our discretion. See, also.

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Previous Comments for July 22-28 '07.


Rickbert said...

Have caught up on some maintenance projects, checking back on some previous Daily Dozens, and for our first 3 weeks, I can report the following:

- 25 Confirmed Smackdowns (videos removed).
- 3 Accounts closed or suspended by YouTube.
- We will also be forwarding 7 videos that contained copyright violations of Michael Yon's work to his lawyer, and they will take it from there.

Our new layout is in place and seems to be functioning as intended. If you have any questions, suggestions, or feedback, it will will be appreciated. Thanks to all who helped confront YouTube with the kinds of videos they host in such great abundance. They aren't doing much about it, but at least one person on YouTube staff agrees these things violate their own policies.

Rickbert said...

Did a little more math. Regular daily dozens started only two weeks or so ago, but with over 168 videos having gone thru the Daily Dozen, 25 videos represents an almost 15% Successful Smackdown rate. At one point, I ran the counts and we were at 5%. It may take time for some of these videos to be seen and flagged by enough people, but they are going down! Woo hoo!

And that's not counting the videos in the closed accounts we never got around to flagging (often hateful stuff that didn't cross the line clearly enough for us to add it to the Daily Dozens).

muninn said...

Rachel Comes Through Again !
New post up over at Rachel Lucas place. She has been incredibly kind enough to do another blog post about the smackdown. Go check it out. Rickbert, Once again, You Da Man!!!

Rickbert said...

Just wanted to mention a little something about the comments I've been leaving when I flag videos.

I started it to help me remember when I came across a video I'd already flagged. Instead of coming up with a new comment each time, I simply made a little file with several quotes from YouTube's own Community Guidelines (see How YouTube Operates.

Well, I've now gotten several replies, from the uploaders or their viewers, complaining about those comments. Almost without exception they tell me to go away, or proclaim their right to post whatever they want. I can't resist quoting a line from the latest one.

My comment: "'YouTube is not a shock site. Don't post gross-out videos of accidents, dead bodies and stuff like that. This includes war footage if it's intended to shock or disgust.' - from YouTube Community Guidelines"

The reply: Do some research and then sign the petition to impeach Bush for war crimes and treason and don't come back at me with some mainstream media-byte.

My response? "With all due respect, that's not a 'mainstream media-byte'. That's a quote from YouTube's own published policy. If you want to complain, complain to YouTube, they wrote it."

I couldn't make up stuff this good if I tried.

Rickbert said...

Four successful Smackdowns were added yesterday. Two from Monday's Daily Dozen and two more from previous days' lists.

Thanks to any new people coming to help out from Rachel Lucas, the Ejectia threads or however you found us. I haven't really kept track, but I only recall one day where we had three. Close enough to call it a new one-day record.

muninn said...

Hi Guys.
Just wanted to drop y'all a quick note. The "Author" Yalla has banned me from commenting on his site. I cant imagine why. I think he needs some special counseling. Might I presume to nominate him for our featured idiot.

Anonymous said...

Basil said:

Svin, set him up. We'll give him the roach treatment.

muninn said...

Ok All,
Here is a link to Yallaa. He has lots of video and is crying out to be smacked down. Let's see how long this takes. Let loose the dogs of the internet.
Yeeeehhaaawwwww !!!!!
Best of resistance IED blah..blah...

Anonymous said...

A major offender has just gone down. Khateeb Jihad - suspended.
Good job, group!

Vicki said...

A new poster to this site from Rachel. I'm trying to bring in more. Can you tag a video more than once? Sorry if its a dumb question, I'm a newbie.

Anonymous said...

Basil says:


There are no dumb questions here. We're still on a learning curve ourselves. There is no reason why you can't flag a video more than once. We are testing now to find what combination of flags is the most effective, but we won't know until we have the data. Flag for both hate speech and graphic violence if you feel it's appropriate.

Welcome aboard and thank you for the help.


muninn said...

If I recall correctly, Ol' Khateeb had a whole bunch of video up on You Tube. Does anybody remember how many? I cant believe he is SUSPENDED! Well done Ravens. Tonight we feast on the bones of Jihadi!

Anonymous said...

Basil says,

Svin, it's very possible that our efforts have been noticed at YouTube HQ. It just might be they are starting to take the jihadis seriously. That makes 4 seriel offenders suspended in the last two weeks.

Anonymous said...

We have a contradiction to work on. KhateebJihad is suspended, but we have also a very active kateebjihad. Same guy or not?


Anonymous said...

Basil says:

KhateedJihad is definitely back under a new handle: kateebjihad. Not a very imaginative lad, but it's him. He's posting daily, most of it going up in the last 72 hours.

I think this might be an opportunity for us. Somebody at YT suspended him once already. I think they'll be rather annoyed if they have to do it a second time. Should we blitz this asshat? Maybe YT has a more permanent fix. Suggestions, please.

Rickbert said...

Muninn, the Yalla link you put here we have in our July 21st archives, but I will find more of his for future Daily Dozens. "Well done Ravens." I like it. Raven = Smackdown Mavens.

KhateebJihad was one of our 1st Repeat Offenders. Just checked our records, he had at least 32 videos up. Gone now, grats to all!

And yes, Tuesday's Daily Dozen will see 'kateebjihad' back up as a Repeat Offender. This guy seems to specialize in IED/Hate Speech type videos, so maybe I'll do every one of those on him tonight. Let him and YouTube know we're gonna stay on top of this.

Rickbert said...

Quick note: Between kateebjihad and the links folks sent in today, I had enough for tuesday's Daily Dozen and half of wednesday's.

If you don't see a link you sent in today, you should see it tomorrow. Thanks again to anyone who checks out YouTube's 'related videos' and forwards links (and/or title/author) for any new ones they find. It really helps.

Andrea said...

Vicki - Welcome! And thank you so much for any and all efforts!

We're Ravens, huh? Like that!

Yesterday I was working on AntiUSATerror's videos. By evenings end I will be done with posting those of his that meet criteria of deserving the Raven Smackdown!

Truth - last night he had me close to tears and then near simultaneously so outraged I could barely contain myself. Rachael would have appreciated my language.

Rickbert said...

I noticed a new trackback this morning, from a post over at Argghhh! and went to take a look. Seems a fellow who reads his site sent in a note saying he read about us over at Rachel Lucas' site. Ain't the Internet grand?

I read the National Review's The Corner Blog, and I've heard Jonah mention the various go-to guys he has. Well, Argghhh! is the home of two of his Military Guys. Booyah! So a big how-do to any new visitors from our new milblogger friends.

Kick off yer boots, take a look around, and welcome!

muninn said...

So much happening so fast. Rickbert, you sure set one hell of a pace(thanks). Yes, Odin has two Ravens. Hugin (forethought) and Muninn (memory), and as our header states, they fly over battlefield earth and bring the latest reports to whisper in his ear. A fitting metaphor, I think, for what we do here.
I have seen several posts from people that say that the videos are too repulsive for them to watch. Well, they are indeed repulsive, but that should only make us more angry. They offend with their violence. As Jeff Cooper has famously stated "The only proper response to violence is overwhelming counter-violence." These videos should make us angry, and that anger is our weapon against them. They spew their hatred for the west, but they forget Odin's words "A gift demands a gift". Let's keep on giving. Thanks for using the anger they cause as a weapon against them. We must teach others this lesson.
Rickbert, I will try to have properly re-sized and re-worked images as soon as possible. I'm thinking of changing "We Support" to "Member". If I am succesful, I will email them to Rachel, et.al. And I will try to leave another link at blackfive and Victory Caucaus. I will also try Grim's Lair, as he seems to be a fellow Norseman.
Basil, Barnowl seems to be a rare find. Have you sent me his e-mail addy? Perhaps I can make the German Connection with him as well.
Once again, I am overwhelmed with the effort everyone here and on the other blogs has put forth.
Thank You! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

sf said...

Todays featured video, "Religion of Peace," is another must see video. Thank you for posting it.

Is there an address to mail comments directly to someone at YouTube who cares? I posted a comment to them but it was just in a little drop down box and is most likely already in file 13.

Anonymous said...

I have an email: barnowl@gmx.de

If that doesn't work you can click on his profile at YT and email from there.

Anonymous said...

Basil says:

I got an email from Grim. He's passing our url to some people he knows in the intel community. He says they may or may not answer. Let's hope.

Rickbert said...

So much happening, indeed. Basil, if you can work up a whole selection of logo/icon artwork as time allows, we can send the whole package out and let the other bloggers pick whatever size/phrases work for them. Some logos with Ravens would be sweet.

SF, if you were asking about emails for YouTube staff, they have posted some on their editors blog. I've begun emailing to some of the addresses I've found but so far no response. You might try editors@youtube.com if you want to write to YouTube directly.

Anyone who wants to recommend us to other bloggers, you can also give out our QTRadmin@gmail.com, as well as sending the link to QTR's home page.

muninn said...

Rachel Lucas-Third time's a charm!
Raven Mavens. The new Smackdown banner is up over on Rachels Blog with a permanent clickable link.
She has also said that she will contact The Emperor Misha, Frank J.at IMAO, and Kim du Toit. She sent us a very gracious reply to the letter Rickbert made me send to her and stated that she wishes the greatest success for us all, and that she believes we are doing a very important thing. So, today has been a pretty good day. You people keep me energized out here in Wesbygod. I cant tell y'all how that makes me feel.

Anonymous said...

Basil reports: I'm using YT to contact anti-Jihadists. We are not alone in this effort, but we do need the links. I think "John Sobieski" will likely answer. For those who don't recognize the handle, Sobieski lead the allied forces at the Gates of Vienna, finally driving back the Ottoman tide of conquest. Takes a Pole to know a Pole. Here's hoping.

Rickbert said...

I just checked all of the Kateebjihad videos we put on the Daily Dozen for tuesday, they're all still up. For anyone who ever saw the other Khateebjihad's videos, we know they're the same kinds of videos, often the same footage, whether they're the same person or not. I guess the lone YouTube staffer who agrees with us had the day off today.

Well, we are moving from the ability to nudge to the ability to shove. As word spreads, YouTube will be faced with more and more objections. If they want to ignore us, they'll have to find a way to sleep at night after they view the garbage we're flagging that they choose to keep hosting.

There's too much other good news here to let an off day daunt me. And I may not be a Pole, but I recall Sobieski had a cameo in Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle (at the siege of Vienna, I believe). Happy Smacking!

Anonymous said...

International coalition of anti-Jihadists:
Go through their blogrolls. Their American point man, Baron Bodissey, runs the Gates of Vienna blog.

Go through the blogrolls of the Infidel Bloggers Alliance, run by Pastorius.

Hook up with the Jawa Report, which seeks out and takes down Jihadist web sites.

Other sites to note:

Rickbert said...

I've taken down the urls folks have been mentioning for bloggers who might like to hear about the Smackdown. Now that we have a 'bloggers' blogger' in Rachel and a milblogger known to National Review, I'm a little more comfortable sending 'cold call' emails out to some of these places.

I can tactfully, if shamelessly, drop a few names and maybe broaden our reach. The harder these videos are for YouTube to pretend aren't there or don't mean anything, the more likely they are to be taken down.

In the long run, it's more than just a matter of getting YouTube to pick and stick with a single standard for their review/removal process. YouTube needs to be held accountable, if not legally, then in the public eye, for the kind of videos they host, and are so reluctant to remove unless dragged kicking and screaming to do so.

We're on our way.

MuscleDaddy said...

I've been making myself huz999's new best friend.

Couldn't keep my comments COMPLETELY non-antagonistic - going with this:

Youtube is another useful idiot for the cause of international terrorism and the global jihad.

By the way - huz999 has a LOT of stuff.

- MuscleDaddy

Anonymous said...

Install an IP address tracker. Sooner or later, Jihadists will be swarming this blog and flagging it like crazy to get it blocked. This is the risk of using Blogger. Be sure to have a back-up plan when you get blocked.

Rickbert said...

We've installed a site meter to track referrals and overall traffic. If we start getting more serious and unwanted attention, we may have to move up to some more serious software.

As a general rule, we don't post our web address over at YouTube, or talk about the project there, so until the guys who are getting their accounts closed start looking, we'll be under the radar for a bit longer. But yes, the day may come.

Ah, Muscledaddy, you've found one of our biggies. He, along with MujahadeedMedia, the now-closed Khateebjihad, AntiUSATerror and the ever-popular SporkofBaghdad (make that SwordofBaghdad), are not only some of the biggest uploaders, they're the ones who take the most offense when we object to glorifying the death of our soldiers. Thin-skinned goobers, every one.

Rickbert said...

Oops, I just called a bunch of digital jihadists goobers. I may be arrested any moment for hate crimes. If I'm not back in 3 days, someone come post bail?

Rickbert said...

And lest we think it's just YouTube, welcome to the World of Jihadcraft. Seems some groups are trying to be 'online terrorists' in places like World of Warcraft and Second Life, because they can't (are afraid to be?) be terrorists in real life.

MuscleDaddy said...

People in the comments sound dismissive about this 'virtual terrorism', but those of us in the biz have been watching that sort of thing pretty closely for some time - though from the financing side.


In EverCrack, you can get/find/take items/money/tools/etc, move about with them, and transfer them to someone else WITHIN THE GAME.

Those 'virtual items' can be bought & sold on ebay, giving them REAL value in the REAL world.

Now play this one:

Terrorist sympathizer huz999 has money - he goes on ebay, buys some EC items, goes into the game and takes possession of said items.

He contacts (either specifically or through a message board posting) that he has items of monetary value to donate to 'the cause' - someone responds and they arrange to meet someplace in the game, where they transfer possession of the items.

Now your terrorist group has the items and can, in turn, sell them on ebay. Financing accomplished, and tell me how a financial institution is supposed to track that transaction...(straight, individual purchases w/records, no shipping of physical items, no direct-line funds transfer etc.)

A couple of us gamerfreaks @ work came up with this, realized that it was probably being done, and subitted a proposal to assemble a 'virtual black-ops team', whose job would be to jump these characters (once identified) in the game on their way to item transfers, kill their avatars & take the items. which still have value, which in turn could be used for gaming upgrades ;-)

- Financing stopped cold & the bad guys can't do anything about it, because they never REALLY knew who it was, and avatars have no constitutional rights to violate.

I was told that I had found my calling (as an avowed sniping/camping/rocket-whore)

- MuscleDaddy

Rickbert said...

eBay stopped the sale of online game goods earlier this year. Of course, there is no limit to the number of other websites set up for just such sales that could be used in just the way you describe. As there will always be jihadi websites if YouTube didn't exist at all.

Like eBay, YouTube would prefer to make money without assuming responsibility. But also like eBay, YouTube will change their behavior when they decide it's easier to remove jihadi videos than it is to allow them to stay up (like they do whenever there's enough publicity or controversy).

So we poke, poke, poke. And we look for more people with sticks. Big sticks.

Anonymous said...

rickbert - looks like your top three (at least) of the daily dozen have been removed. Yahoo!

Anonymous said...

Kathab23 just went down suspended along with all of his vids! Someone at YT is taking Jihad seriously.

MuscleDaddy said...

Well, yes - when we first started talking about this it was ebay, so I just default there when explaining the scenario - most people don't know about IGE and the rest.

- MuscleDaddy

muninn said...

I believe that you are correct about this operation being a "ring" of some sort. From reading the comments these guys post to each other, it seems they have a centralized(or celluralized)distribution net and intel sharing network. I am beginning to think that there are unseen ramifications here that may involve something much larger than Basement Bozos posting shock videos.
I posted my first test video to you tube today. It is still being processed(and no, it is not marked for public display)but if it works, we will be taking the offensive soon.
MD, How is that GÜ soundtrack coming along?

MuscleDaddy said...

I went a little nuts with the GU logos (cool-heh) - didn't know I was working on a soundtrack... but I guess I could.

Do we want the soundtrack related to Smackdown?

Do we want a compilation of existing music (fun), or am I trying to actually write something (slow..veeeery slow)?

What genre are we going for here?

- MuscleDaddy

Rickbert said...

Impressive, Ravens! khattab23 just went up on our Repeat Offenders last night and was our Featured Smackdown for today, the link I send out to our allies at other websites.

Thirteen videos total, we flagged three of them (once I get to three, I make them repeat offenders, and we try and go back for more as time goes by). Now all 13 are gone, thanks to you guys.

Two words. Suh wheet!

We will keep putting up more videos from these Repeat Offenders over time, and trying to keep track of how many videos they have, so when a whole account goes down, we can celebrate victory for getting all those videos removed.

Rickbert said...

If there were ever a day to repeat Bill Whittle's phrase, We Are Not Alone, today is the day. From the Jawa Report:

Counter-Cyber Jihad: It's the New Black

An Army of Davids in Counter-Cyber Jihad

Where he also links to the Weekly Standard:
Unwelcome Internet Guests -
The problem of jihadist websites hosted in America.

Rickbert said...

I just wanted to post a note to publicly thank John over at Argghhh!. He's the first blogger to join the Daily Featured video linkfest that we started with Rachel Lucas earlier this week.

He's just set me up to include whichever Repeat Offender dijihadi we're putting the spotlight on for the day onto his daily H&R post ("A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.").

So thanks to John, and hello to anyone who ends up here from his site!

MuscleDaddy said...

I just got one of those "someone has responded to your comment" things in my email - can't get to YouTube to see the comment until I get home (blocked from work).

You guys ever run into "Heriotz"?

..he's the one who posted the response.

- MuscleDaddy

Rickbert said...

Heriotz is a new name to me. Sometimes I've gotten replies from someone besides the uploader, and checked their profile for any videos they might have.

Saturday will probably feature SwordofBaghdad, one of our bigger repeat offenders, but you should see something on Heriotz on Sunday. And thanks for the tip.

Kat said...

Any chance we'll get a blog roll for those participating?

I thought we'd go get LGF or a blog like that to participate. Those who can bring on the bear.

Also, I would like to suggest that we find and post the laws which prohibit material support for terrorist organizations.

If we post any comment on a video, it should simply copy and paste the section of the law that the hosted video is violating.

We don't need to have ideological discussions with the user or any commenters there. In fact, it might provide an onus to get disgusted commenters who have no idea that it is illegal and not protected under the 1st amendment to get involved and flag the videos.

Finally, do we have contact information for youTube? We should be expressing to them the need to develop an internal process that would consider certain videos as a priority for review including extending their "reasons" for flagging the video. Mind you, there are terrorist videos but there are also likely pedophile videos, rape and other crimes that are recorded and uploaded to share with like minded creeps. So, I am not advocating that terrorists take precedence over those crimes, but that YouTube should consider a more robust designation process or consider opening a non-partisan, non-profit committee for just such a purpose.

We may also want to coordinate with Memri or others who would lend their services to translating some videos that are not expressly and graphically violent as some video' speeches are actually from terrorist organizations or designated terrorists advocating on behalf of such an organization which is also a violation of the law.

not that I want to expand beyond our means right now, but these are things to consider.

first order of business is how we approach the videos. It may be all well and good to flag them as graphic violence or hate speech, but we should be pro-active in stating the reason why the video is a violation.

Rickbert said...


If you scroll down the sidebars on the right, you'll notice we have a blogroll as well as an Honor Roll for anyone helping out with our Daily Featured Smackdown (regularly pointing the way to videos we're trying to smack down).

As for specific laws, I don't have the legal competence, but I can point you to a Weekly Standard article that briefly speaks to this.

If you read the "How YouTube Operates" link on our main page, I do quote the more relevant passages from YouTube's policy that these videos seem to violate. You may also notice that when I flag videos, I leave a comment quoting one or more of those passages.

Also, I've found a few YouTube email addresses on their editors' blog, but have either gotten no replies or received cut & paste form letters. You might try editor@youtube.com if you want to ask any questions or offer them direct feedback.

We've also been trying to spread the word and get support, but we're a small site and the larger bloggers are busy folks, and even comments for many of these blogs have limited and/or closed registrations.

There's only so much time, and so much attention other bloggers have to spare, but yes, I'm trying where I can to spread the word among sympathetic bloggers.

Rickbert said...

Closing out this week's comments, for our current comment thread, please see Comments for Aug 5-11 '07.